EUROPEUS

Commentaires

What we have here is a superb example of totalitarian democracy.
When the rulers of such a "democracy" manage to have the people endorse their schemes by a vote, the resulting decision becomes sacred. It is the voice of the majority. Any person challenging it, even in the mildest and most peaceful terms is branded a fascist, a nazi or worse, and is at best prescribed a reeeducation cure.
But when the people are not enlightened enough tn approve the vision of their glorious leaders, then the voters need to be informed, reeducated. New elections or referendums will be organised until they concur with their rulers' plans, at which time their decision will forthwith become sacred.

Ecrit par : furgole | samedi, 14 juin 2008

The empire is not legitim. We want Plan F !

> http://www.neues-deutschland.de/artikel/130387.das-keltische-dorf-trotzt-dem-imperium.html
> http://etienne.chouard.free.fr/Europe/forum/index.php?2008/04/08/93-manifestations-obstinees

Ecrit par : vaterlandslose Gesellen | samedi, 14 juin 2008

Very good article, I have the strong feeling that everything started with the none well organized last expansion of Europe, something both sides - EU and the new member states are going to pay - and that neglecting any effect for an EU constitution is just people's reaction. However, trusting Europe's future into the hands of Nicola Sarkozy and Angela Merkel ...scares me more!

Ecrit par : Thanos | dimanche, 15 juin 2008

Yes, of course, everybody would like to have Plan F. But we won't get it. Every possible effort will be made to further exclude citizens from the decisions concerning Europe's (which is: our) future.
In all the panic discussions around the Irish "No", there is one thing missing in my eyes: the possibility of reviewing the treaty. All options mentioned so far only aim at having the Irish change their minds, have the Irish leave (at least temporarily) the EU, have the Irish justify their reasons and so on. No European politician is currently able to recognize that (almost) the same text has been rejected by the people in France, the Netherlands and now Ireland.
It's about time to mark a stop in the European treaty discussion and to try to find out, what the 450 million Europeans actually want. And obviously, they do NOT want this kind of treaty, they want easy to understand general rules for everybody and a much less technocratic Europe in Brussels and Strasbourg.
And although Jean Quatremer is perfectly right when he writes about the somehow strange reasons of the Irish "No", it is a democratic result (just like in France and the Netherlands) which should be respected. But our politicians do not seem to see the writings on the wall.

Ecrit par : Kai | lundi, 16 juin 2008

Il semble utile de citer ici les propos fort judicieux du président tchèque ;
"tchèque, polonaise, italienne et danoise et l’esperanto. L’européisme est l’esperanto : une langue artificielle, morte".

Sur le non irlandais :

"Les résultats constituent, espérons-le, un message clair pour tous. C'est une victoire de la liberté et de la raison sur des projets élitistes artificiels et sur la bureaucratie européenne. Le projet de traité de Lisbonne s'est achevé aujourd'hui avec la décision des électeurs irlandais et sa ratification ne peut continuer".

Ecrit par : furgole | lundi, 16 juin 2008

Je ne crois pas que l'Europe soit morte. Je ne crois pas non plus que l'Europe soit quelque chose d'artificiel. Au contraire, les gens veulent vivre l'Europe, mais une autre Europe que celle qui s'occupe de la calibration de tomates. Cette Europe est devenue trop technocrate, trop éloignée des préoccupations des gens.
Quel Européen n'a pas envie de vivre en paix et dans un système d'échanges amicaux avec ses voisins? Notre histoire est des plus sanglantes et l'Europe est un garant de paix. Mais les gens en France et aux Pays-Bas et maintenant en Irlande ont refusé un texte qui rend cette Europe encore plus technocrate, encore plus omnipuissante, sans réllement savoir où elle va. La simplicité est de mise et il serait bien de revoir la copie. Le "oui" arrivera dès que le texte proposé correspondra aux attentes des citoyens et citoyennes.
Là, où je donne entièrement raison au président tchèque, c'est lorsqu'il dit que le processus de ratification se termine par le "non" irlandais. Maintenant, il faut penser à autre chose au lieu de faire voter le même texte pour la troisième fois.

Ecrit par : Kai | mardi, 17 juin 2008

Donc les Irlandais n'ont pas répondu "correctement" à la question. Quelle incroyable déni de démocratie, les peuples pour lesquels on veut bien sortir les urnes disent tous NON, et seuls une toute petite minorité a été consultée. Une Europe qui déjà bafoue les droits de la vie et de l'homme (cf :La lettre de Mgr Rey : http://diocese-frejus-toulon.com/Problemes-ethiques-souleves-par-la.html ) mais aussi une Europe qui pétine le principe de subsidiarité et voudrait se faire malgré les peuples. Cette Europe là est bien morte, et l'on ne fait qu'agiter son cadavre depuis ses débuts, sinistre comédie totalitaire !

Ecrit par : dessinateur de presse | mardi, 17 juin 2008

The Europhiles are diging themselves into a hole that they cannot get out of because of their arrogant comments that the Irish are ingrates having gained so much from our membership of the European Union. Taking into account the fact that Ireland has paid back to European countries not millions but up to 100 Billion Euro in fish taken out of the Irish costal waters and then adding the dreadful social cost in unemployment 1973 into the 1990s, arising from EU membership, we actually have little to be grateful for to the EU.

Morphing from the Common Market (trading) into the Eurpoean Economic Community (trading and adding a dollop of political integration) before morphing once again into the the highly political European Union the elites of Europe have cajoled, threatened, blackmailed and bullied the Irish people into supporting what has become not just an undemocratic but anti-democratic body which brooks no dissent from its peoples. Mr Barosso now talks of 'empire' (possibly with himself being selected by the Eurpean elites as Emperor). However as history has shown, empires were infamous for their total lack of anything resembling democracy and held together by oppression. For their courageous act in rejecting the so-called Lisbon Treaty the Irish people should therefore receive the thanks of all genuinely democraticly minded people not just in Europe but als across all continents.

Thank you
Noel Martin - Republic of Ireland.

Ecrit par : Noel Martin | mercredi, 18 juin 2008

Interesting article.
What will be the future of Europe now? Check this article from Michael Berendt. A good analysis of the current situation where the EU stands.
http://michaelberendt.blogactiv.eu/2008/06/18/enlargement-in-doubt-as-ireland-scuppers-the-lisbon-treaty/

Ecrit par : Blogactiv Team | jeudi, 19 juin 2008

I do maintain: Europe is NOT dead. What comes to an end, is the technocrate Brussels approach to what Europe should be. In the end of the day, we all should be grateful that the Irish have rejected this utmost undemocratic attempt to settle this technocratic approach forever (in this point I do agree with Noel, but I do not think that this accountant approach "we have paid so much and we have received so much" is the right way to think of Europe's future).

The discussion we need today is what we, European citizens, want Europe to be. The geographical realities do simply not allow to bury Europe. But the following questions must be asked: should Europe be a "value-based" community (and if so, what are these values? A fundamentalist Christian set of values as the Kuszinski brothers wanted? The value of the "free" market? We against the rest of the world? All this is not too exciting...) Or is Europe simply bound to be a huge market place with regulating authorities supervising economy?

Now, here is plan G: in each European country, regional citizens commitees should be set up to discuss the real Europan ambitions of the European citizens. Using methods like SWOT, the results of these regional "round tables" can be condensed and brought to a national level. Using the same method, the national results can be condensed for European round tables. And the common points of all these national commitees should then be submitted to a pan-European vote on a basic paper defining the general direction of Europe. Once this has failed, then I'll agree - Europe could then be considered dead. But why should we declare Europe being dead now? What is currently failing is the Europe of politicians and technocrates. Perhaps the truth will be a real Europe of citizens?

Ecrit par : Kai | vendredi, 20 juin 2008

Thank you for responding to an Irishman’s thoughts on the Lisbon Treaty. You may have noticed that I never once referred to the European Union as ‘Europe’ because to do so dishonours the peoples of the Continent of Europe which also encompasses Russia for example. The elites who founded the Iron, Coal and Steel Confederation (at least that is what I think it was called) which went on to become the Common Market, then European Economic Community and finally (to date) the European Community actually stole the continental name and successfully marketed it as a catch-all name for European capitalism.

I absolutely believe that it is not simply desirable but is essential that the countries of Europe (and all other countries) should closely co-operate to resolve the major issues that face all the peoples of the world i.e. global warming, rampant poverty in many countries, job creation, AIDS and crime etc.

However co-operation is not the same as assimilation which is what the EU is about and it is not at all necessary have to hand over a country’s independence and neutrality or create an EU commission or an EU Parliament which undermines the national parliaments to resolve the above issues. The wonderfully crafted illusion of the European Union as a beacon of peace, stability and kindness (the Mother Therese of humanity) masks a totally ‘business friendly’ monster that wilfully pits the workers of low-income countries against the workers in the more developed countries in order to force down wages and working conditions regardless of the social cost.

This brings me to the real (but unspoken) reason for the Irish rejection of the Lisbon Treaty. The influx of approximately 500,000 immigrants (mainly from Eastern Europe) into a country of 4.5 million citizens was a major shock to the system, in particular the old and young. Having travelled around many towns in Ireland, I am of the firm belief that the elderly Irish citizens now feel like strangers in their own country and the young Irish cannot compete for jobs that would give them a half decent future against well educated over-qualified immigrants who are willing to work for less than the minimum wage. Is this racism? No, racism is opening the door to workers from Eastern Europe while at the same time throwing out immigrants from Africa and other non EU countries. While it is true that issues like abortion, gay marriages and such like cause dissention among right-wing Catholics, these are issues that are already being debated in our society. But because it has become fashionable among elements of Irish society to label anyone who questions the Irish Establishment’s immigration policy as racists it is little wonder that so many people gave other reasons for their objection to the Lisbon Treaty. The simple truth is that the Irish have been bullied and cajoled by the various versions of the EU for so long that the Lisbon ‘pig-in-a-poke was the straw that broke the Irish camel’s back.

Celtic Tiger Ireland was never more than a lure, a may-fly to entice the big fish within the newly emerging nations (regardless of their human rights record) into surrendering their new-found independence to the tender mercies of the EU. Clearly the European elites have no intention of allowing the Irish to rain on their parade and already are disseminating rumours that Ireland will be expelled from the EU if we don’t fall back in line. Great, but if this is the case, return our independence and costal waters to pre Common market status and sign a most favoured nation treaty, then we will move over and allow the EU to continue its path of eventual ignominious destruction.

Noel Martin-Republic of Ireland

Ecrit par : Noel Martin | samedi, 21 juin 2008

Noel,

thanks for taking the time to share your thoughts with us. I fully agree with you that we must re-consider what Europe actually is and what we, European citizens, actually want it to be. I also share your point that the evolution of the European institutions which you describe from the very starts and the Coal and Mine Community in the 50s to the current status, has made a capitalistic monster of Europe, unable to effectively tackle the rising problems of the European citizens. In this sense, as said earlier, I really do thank the Irish for "forcing" us to re-think our European positions. To some extent, the Irish "no" has saved the idea of a democratic Europe in which the voice of the citizens is heard and not simply suppressed as in all other European countries, where the way of parliamentry ratification has excluded the citizens from expressing their opinion.
Having said this, it is also true that some of the Irish reasons for the "no" look odd to other Europeans - like the "fundamentalist" Catholic positions on gay marriage or abortion, but in the end of the day, these questions mainly regard the Irish.
So, finally, my proposition of "Plan G" seems more and more meaningful... But please, friends in Ireland, stick with us and do not let you guide towards any kind of "priviledged partnership" or similar rubbish - stick with us and help us all find a new direction for Europe!

Ecrit par : Kai | lundi, 23 juin 2008

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